Hosted by Woodcraft
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

maximum number of students allowed? Options
Jeffseiver
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2:11:01 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/22/2007
Posts: 0
Location: Mission Viejo/Calif.
Does or duz, anyone actually know for a fact what the maximum allowed by law, number of students which can be enrolled in a wood shop or any activity elective class? I have been looking in the cal ed site but have not found any ed law which limits the number of kids. So Help!Q!
an update!!!!! I found it after 6 hours of searching through the educational codes of california. I love the power of the internet.EDUCATION CODE
SECTION 49320





49320. A basic work station in industrial education is defined as
an assigned location where a student normally spends the majority of
his class time performing the operational functions necessary to meet
the performance objectives and goals of the course, including
industrial safety education. For these purposes, the number of
students in any industrial education facility or laboratory in
elementary and secondary programs shall not exceed the number of
basic work stations designed for the number of students assigned, as
determined by the local governing board of the school district.

Here it is for california other states have one as well so if you are being bombarded with kids and want to fight it, print out this section.
CanKuhn
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:32:25 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 0
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Here's a cute story. A fellow woodworking teacher in my district was having up to 40 students put in his class. He thought that was way to many so he wrote a letter voicing his safety concerns to the superintendent and the school board telling them by putting so many students in his shop the school was putting the safety of his students at risk and he stated that he no longer wanted to be responsible if any injuries happened. In doing so he was thinking that they might put a limit on his numbers. Well in June of that year he was transferred to another school, his shop was closed down, was given no budget at his new, and the same number of students as before. He lasted one year there then took early retirement. Granted he probably could have stated case better but I think in the end the principal has the say of how many students are allowed in the shop.

If there is a law I would, along with Jeff, would like to know about it.
swillner
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 7:18:42 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/21/2007
Posts: 0
Location: Galt, CA
For our district it varies by school. My maximum class size is 28 based on the number of workstations, although I allow 30 students in my 9 week 6th grade woodshop since it is all handtools. There is another woodshop in our district that has class sizes of 40 in a shop that is L shaped, but the teacher is OK with it. The school has the wealthiest socioeconomic base in the district and he has the budget to buy all the tools and materials he needs to accomodate the 40 kids.
I was doing some research on this afternoon. A couple of university websites quoted OSHA regulations from 1984 and another quoted US department of labor who stated maximum class size for hazardous condition career technical education classes having a maximum class of 20. It didn't state what level the education level this applied to, but ever since I have been teaching I have never had a class that small.
I attended a workshop at a CITEA conference where we talked about lab management in one of my classes the recommended guideline for space was to allow 50 square feet per student but that was only a guideline and not a regulation.
I talked to one of our science teachers who said they were able to limit their class sizes to 30 based on a regulation for lab classes. I never pursued more information since my class size is manageable.

Steve
craigp
Posted: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:03:06 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/6/2008
Posts: 0
Location: Chesapeake City, Maryland
I know when I went through Ball State University, we had to design a facility as part of a course. We were told that there is a maximum number of students that are allowed per square foot of instructional space. Unfortunately, I forget what it is, but I will email one of the professors there and try to find out. I believe that it is an OSHA statute.

Craig R. Patterson, CD
Shop Teacher
Bohemia Manor High School
Chesapeake City, Maryland
mikeb
Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:27:47 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 0
Location: North Kingstown/RI
I have had as many as 22 in my facility. I thought it went by the nuber of vices/work stations also. I have approximately 16-18 students in my classes this year.(better than 40!!!!)
dtrenholm
Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:47:06 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 0
Location: Calgary/Canada
In the 60's the shop I inhabit now was twice as big with 16-18 kids. I found a blueprint of the equipment and shop layout...wow.

Now most our shops are small, equipment from the 60's...used to do metal, leather, plastics, photography, ceramics, wood, electricity, woodworking.

The student numbers are based on your desire to keep your job or if you are a newbie. The first and second year I had 25 students per class(we were falling over each other). Last year I said that my classes need to be capped and played the safety card. Admin cut my budget in half. So, I simplified the program. cut out co 2 cars, wooden clocks, exotic wood etcand added more drawing.

It's all Bull&$89&. The question is how much a person will put up with. I just hope that someone doesn't get hurt on my watch (including me).

creighta
Posted: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:41:31 AM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 0
Location: Georgetown/OH
I try to limit my classes to twenty. I know we all worry about budget and job security, but when it comes right down to it I couldn't teach the students as well when there were 28 and 30 in the class, so I limit numbers to allow me to work w/ each student individually.

I also think that the students in the class make a difference. i have one class of 24 right now that will accomplish quite a bit with few safety concerns, while I had a class of 16 last year that were always behind deadline and had several injuries during the year. Know your kids and try to place them during scheduling.
mikeb
Posted: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:52:10 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/7/2008
Posts: 0
Location: North Kingstown/RI
I have special ed/needs student who travel with their own paraprofessionals that monitor their behavior and progress in my class. Boy am I a lucky guy!!!!!!!!
creighta
Posted: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:16:33 AM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 0
Location: Georgetown/OH
I have only had an aid once. It just happened that I had an autistic student in my class and the special ed coordinator stopped in to bring intorduce a new student who was also autistic.

She was surprised to get to my room and find that 15 of my 18 were on IEPs and now 2 of my 19 would be autistic and I had no aid in the room. I have to say though my IEP students usually excel at the carpentry work.
MrsN
Posted: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:27:25 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 0
Location: Wisconsin
Last year I had a class where 15/19 students had IEP's. Most of the kids did really well in class, it was the only class of the day they could "do" something. I have my administration on my side so if a kid is too disruptive or a safety hazard to himself or others they can be removed from class (IEP or regular ed students). I had to do it once to prove it wasn't just a threat, most kids now decide they would rather be in class.
When I started at this school I was told my classes were capped at 20 kids, since that is what my lab can hold. I think they got to that number from fire code based on the size of the room and number of doors. I guess having a tiny lab can come in handy sometimes.
woodnfire
Posted: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:18:11 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/16/2006
Posts: 0
Location: Bend, Oregon
There is a difference between an IEP and a 504. 504 is part of a federal mandate. If your students are on a 504 then it is the districts responsibility to make sure the resources for success are available. You as the teacher can be held fisically liable if a 504 student does not achieve success.
Resources for 504 students can include an aide. By federal law teachers with students that have a 504 must be notified.
I had a student with a 504 that was allergic to dust and juniper/cedar. When I asked the district to purchase a self contained breathing unit for this student (which is the only way he would have survived in my shop), the student was removed.
All teachers should know the difference between an IEP and a 504.
creighta
Posted: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:14:48 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 0
Location: Georgetown/OH
If I recall correctly a 504 is a stepo below an IEP. You are not as liable for a 504, they have not been diagnosed with anything, but the parents or other teachers requested they be given one. IEP students have a diagnosed disability and the school recieves weighted funding for them based on disability. 504 students supply the district with no further funding, just more work.
woodnfire
Posted: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:47:38 PM
Rank: Newbie
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/16/2006
Posts: 0
Location: Bend, Oregon
We may be splitting hairs here. A 504 is part of the Federal Civil rights act. If a student has a Legitimate 504 plan, violations are considered a violation of the Civil Rights Act. An IEP violated can still allow for a teacher to be liable.
My point is that all teachers should know the difference between IEP's and 504's. More importantly they need to know what is available to them to meet the needs of the student and what their liability is.
Make sure to take the time to understand all IEP's and/or 504's
More info can be found at www.ed.gov
Users browsing this topic
Guest

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum Rss Feed : RSS

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.0.1 - 2/27/2006
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
This page was generated in 0.082 seconds.


Woodcraft | Woodcraft Magazine | Woodshop Teachers